theneointellectual: Victim disarmament advocates: Warsaw Ghetto fighters made things worse for the Jews #tcot #2ndamendment #jcot #tjot #ccot

Hitler Joins Gun Control Debate, But History Is In Dispute

http://jpfo.org/articles-assd03/hitler-joins-gun-control-debate.htm

ADL's Ken Jacobson (quoted in piece)

....."is such an absurdity and so offensive and just undermines any real understanding of what the Holocaust was about," "If they do believe it, they're making no serious examination of what the Nazi regime was about. "....

RRD: Actually almost no one argues that advocating for victim disarmament automatically makes you a Nazi,( since after all Nazi analogies may only be directed at Conservatives like Barry Goldwater,Bush & the Teaparty "extremists" fn1 ) We simply point out the objective fact that the legally disarmed cannot resist their murderers with guns, an argument so "absurd" that it was made repeatedly by the Founding Fathers ( fn2) & by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn (fn3) who was an actual survivor of Stalin's murderous Gulags.
What's more while the ADL has done ( & continues to do) good work from time to time ,the ADL has also repeatedly placed its liberalism before its support of Israel or its opposition to anti-semitism. (fn4)
So I take their "outrage" with a grain of salt.

The AP then quotes some "objective" "historians" :

.... "To suggest that the targeting of Jews in any of the gun regulations or any of the other regulations is somehow tied to Nazis' view of guns is entirely misleading," Harcourt said, "because the Nazis believed in a greater deregulation of firearms. Firearms were viewed, for the good German, were something to which they had rights."

With the 1938 law, Nazis seized guns from Jewish homes. But few Jews owned guns and they composed just 2 percent of the population in a country that strongly backed Hitler. By the time the law passed, Jews were so marginalized and spread among so many cities, there was no possibility of them putting up meaningful resistance, even with guns, said Robert Gellately, a professor of history at Florida State University and author of "Backing Hitler: Consent and Coercion in Nazi Germany."

"Once the Germans began adopting that strategy there really wasn't very much that people armed with pistols, or even rifles and machine guns, could do," said Paulsson, the historian and author of "Secret City: The Hidden Jews of Warsaw."

”Paulsson said it is possible that if Polish Jews had limited their resistance, Nazi troops might not have destroyed the ghetto, allowing more to survive in hiding or escape. When armed Jews shot at mobs or troops at other times in 1930s and 1940s Poland, it incited more vicious counter-attacks, he said.”

”But Paulsson, whose mother was freed from the Auschwitz concentration camp at the end of the war, dismisses that argument as twisting the facts."

...."Objectively, it might have made things worse" if the Jews who fought the Nazis in the 1943 Warsaw ghetto uprising in Poland had more and better guns, said historian Steve Paulsson, an expert on the period whose Jewish family survived the city's destruction."....

RRD:

....." To suggest that the targeting of Jews in any of the gun regulations or any of the other regulations is somehow tied to Nazis' view of guns is entirely misleading," Harcourt said, "because the Nazis believed in a greater deregulation of firearms. Firearms were viewed, for the good German, were something to which they had rights." ....

RRD: You see the Nazis were not opposed to gun rights,they simply opposed gun rights for Jews. By the same token the Nazis did not favor murder,they just favored murdering Jews,after all they were not supporters of murdering everyone,just Jews. One could even say that the Nazis opposed murder,after all it was illegal for a Jew to murder a German wasn't it? So the Nazis were "anti-murder". By the same token the Confederacy was not "pro-slavery" since they just favored slavery for blacks but not for whites. And the South's attacks on the Second Amendment rights of Freed Slaves were not "gun control" since they only targeted Blacks & Republicans. These are the putrid buffons who delude themselves into thinking that they are brilliant intellectuals.

..... "Once the Germans began adopting that strategy there really wasn't very much that people armed with pistols, or even rifles and machine guns, could do," said Paulsson, the historian and author of "Secret City: The Hidden Jews of Warsaw.".......

RRD: As opposed to what the wholly disarmed who marched into the gas chambers could do? It is true that some Second Amendment advocates are prone to making sweeping statements such as "If the Jews were armed there never would have been a Holocaust" a statement that plays into the hands of opponents of the Second Amendment by making the issue about "whether the Jews could effectively resist the Holocaust” (though some who escaped to the marshes did) when the actual issue is whether innocent people have the right to own guns to defend themselves against their government if it becomes a dictatorship. Many gun control advocates seriously argue that "only the police & military should possess guns" it is perfectly appropriate to point out to these fools that the logical end point of their argument is that the Warsaw Ghetto Fighters had no right to own guns. It is the gun control advocate's repeated refusal to acknowledge that there are any circumstances where people may have the right to own or use guns to defend themselves against their government (if it is a dictatorship) that has prompted the obvious point that this State Worshipping attitude can only lead one to favor the disarmament of the Warsaw Ghetto Fighters ( if one is consistent.) I have noted before that leftists often warn that our government is on the verge of becoming a dictatorship when they are discussing the Fourth or Fifth Amendment but then suddenly become authoritarians whenever gun control comes up. (fn5).
Insurgencies fail three out of four times but whether Americans would succeed in resisting a dictatorship is IRRELEVANT to the fundamental question of whether they have the RIGHT to resist one.

...."Paulsson said it is possible that if Polish Jews had limited their resistance, Nazi troops might not have destroyed the ghetto, allowing more to survive in hiding or escape. When armed Jews shot at mobs or troops at other times in 1930s and 1940s Poland, it incited more vicious counter-attacks, he said."....

RRD: I do wish that those who still do not grasp the magnitude of the evil that we are dealing with would read this. And then reread it. And then reread it again until the full nature of our enemies penetrates their skulls.

:..." When armed Jews shot at mobs or troops at other times in 1930s and 1940s Poland, it incited more vicious counter-attacks".....

"Incited"?

Incited as defined by the Oxford English Dictionary ( British & World English ):

http://oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/english/incite?q=incited

" Definition of incite verb [with object]

urge or persuade (someone) to act in a violent or unlawful way:

Derivatives

inciter

noun

Origin:

late 15th century (earlier (late Middle English) as incitation): from French inciter , from Latin incitare, from in -'towards' + citare 'rouse'

Nearby words

incised meander incision incisive incisor incisure incite inciteful incitement incivility incl. inclement

Examples

encourage or stir up (violent or unlawful behaviour): they conspired to incite riots

he incited loyal subjects to rebellion

Definition of incite in Oxford Dictionaries (US English) (US)

http://oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/incite

verb [with object]

urge or persuade (someone) to act in a violent or unlawful way:

Derivatives

incitation

Pronunciation: /ˌinsīˈtāSHən/

noun inciter

noun

Origin:

late 15th century: from French inciter , from Latin incitare, from in - 'toward' + citare 'rouse'

incised meander incision incisive incisor incisure incite inciteful incitement incivility incl. inclement

Incited as defined by the Cambridge Dictionary:

incited - definition in American English Dictionary - Cambridge Dictionary Online

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/american-english/incite?q=incite

......”to encourage someone to do or feel something unpleasant or violent, or to cause violent or unpleasant actions: The ads were trying to incite public opinion against the government.”....

Incited as defined by the American Heritage Dictionary:

American Heritage Dictionary Entry: incite

http://www.ahdictionary.com/word/search.html?q=incite+&submit.x=51&submit.y=13

Incite (ĭn-sīt)

......”tr.v. in·cit·ed, in·cit·ing, in·cites To provoke and urge on: troublemakers who incite riots; inciting workers to strike. See Synonyms at provoke.

[Middle English encyten, from Old French enciter , from Latin incit āre , to urge forward : in-, intensive pref.; see IN -2 + citāre , to stimulate, frequentative of ciēre , to put in motion; see keiə- in Indo-European roots.]

in·cite ment n. in·citer n.

incite - definition. American English definition of incite by Macmillan Dictionary

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/american/incite

saɪt /

to encourage people to be violent or commit crimes by making them angry or excited He was accused of inciting racial hatred. incite someone to (do) something : It was alleged that Cox had incited other prisoners to riot .

Incited as defined by Dictionary.com:

incited | Example Sentences at Dictionary.com Mobile

http://m.dictionary.com/example/incited?linkId=7596ya

verb 1. But it was actually the police that had incited the riot. 2. Irritation of body, produced by utter filth and exposure, incited her to the horrid process of tearing off her skin by inches. 3. They're blinded by the populism of their leaders and by the hatred that's been incited in them. 4. Stories that did not concern war often incited children to demonstrate physical courage. 5. He incited a national politics of paranoia and retribution. 6. And his watered -down apology incited a harsh response. 7. The blaze of hagiography in which he died seems to have incited critics to special fury. 8. The officer also testified the gesture further incited the already frenzied crowd. 9. In fact, these words incited quite a discussion in my own office. 10. Still, they incited much false grievance and violence.

Incited as defined by the Merriam-Webster dictionary:

Merriam-Webster

http://i.word.com/idictionary/incite

Main Entry: in·cite Pronunciation: \in-ˈ sīt\Function: transitive verb Inflected Form(s): in·cit·ed; in·cit·ing Etymology: Middle French inciter, from Latin incitare, from in-+ citare to put in motion —more at CITE Date: 15th century : to move to action : stir up : spur on : urge on

— in·cit·ant \-ˈ sī-t ə nt\ noun

— in·cite·ment \-ˈ sīt-mənt\ noun — in·cit·er noun synonyms INCITE, INSTIGATE, ABET, FOMENT mean to spur to action. INCITE stresses a stirring up and urging on, and may or may not imply initiating <inciting a riot>. INSTIGATE definitely implies responsibility for initiating another's action and often connotes underhandedness or evil intention <instigated a conspiracy>. ABET implies both assisting and encouraging <aiding and abetting the enemy>. FOMENT implies persistence in goading <fomenting rebellion>.

RRD: Some time ago I wrote the following in my diary , but did not post it :

"So unhinged is the opposition to the Second Amendment, & the moral equivalency between self-defense & murder is so deeply ingrained in the minds of many leftists that it is only a matter of time before the Judenräte are hailed as wise & level-headed saviors of the Jews akin to Gandhi & Dr.King & the Warsaw Ghetto fighters are portrayed as violent ”cowboys” who ”provoked” the Nazis by their use of their evil "gun violence" against the Nazis' more peaceful "gas violence".

Paulsson has stopped just short of this but what he is saying is that, in effect, that the Nazis were actually acting in the Jews' best interests by disarming them .
No doubt someone will come forward to demand that the Jews thank the Nazis & condemn the Warsaw Ghetto fighters. One would have thought that the wholesale extermination of those who DID NOT resist or "incite" anyone would have put this "violence is never the answer" rubbish to bed once and for all,but one cannot talk someone out of his religion.

The photoshopped newsheadline is from the People's Cube:

Historians: Warsaw Ghetto Uprising Was Overreaction

http://thepeoplescube.com/current-truth/historians-warsaw-ghetto-uprising-was-overreaction-t797.html

As to Paulsson's "moral authority" in his being (allegedly) the child of a Holocaust Survivor, I will repeat what I said about Howard Gutman:

The full text of the U.S. Ambassador to Belgium's anti-semitic speech is now available.I rebut it. - fightingstatism

http://fightingstatism.posterous.com/the-full-text-of-the-us-ambassador-to-belgium

....." The fact that Gutman is a son of a Holocaust Survivor makes him all the more depraved."But what if his father defends him!"Then his father is either a fool defending a self-hating jew out of some deluded parental loyalty,or is himself a self-hating jew. Let us not be naive. There were all kinds of people:moral,immoral,virtuous,depraved,& everything in between in the camps. None deserved death. But self-hating jews were there alongside the righteous. The Nazis did not pick and choose.The fact that someone survived the Holocaust should make it all the more INEXCUSABLE for them to whitewash the rabid,insane,anti-semitism of the Muslims,much less invoking their status as a Holocaust Survivor to lend credence to their denial of Muslim Anti-semitism. (I should note,that I am simply pointing out that if Gutman's father defended him,he should be condemned,for all I know Gutman's father is outraged,or,if dead,turning over in his grave.) But even if one were naive enough to give such a person the benefit of the doubt:What of it?Being in a death camp does not alter the irrefutable and overwhelming evidence of Muslim anti-semitism. "......

RRD: And being the son of a Holocaust survivor does not entitle you to claim that those who defended themselves "incited" the "reprisals" that were ”worse” than what came before,or to parrot the absurd rationalizations of the ”Jewish Elders” that the Nazis would be even more murderous if the Jews resisted them.

I conclude by returning to the land of the sane to quote one of those who helped "incite" the Nazis by arming the Jewish Partisans.

Icchak Cukierman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icchak_Cukierman

” In 1968, the 25th anniversary of the Warsaw ghetto uprising, Zuckerman was asked what military lessons could be learned from the uprising. He replied:

"I don’t think there’s any real need to analyze the Uprising in military terms. This was a war of less than a thousand people against a mighty army and no one doubted how it was likely to turn out. This isn’t a subject for study in military school. ... If there’s a school to study the human spirit, there it should be a major subject. The important things were inherent in the force shown by Jewish youth after years of degradation, to rise up against their destroyers, and determine what death they would choose: Treblinka or Uprising." .......

A. Polonsky, (2012), The Jews in Poland and Russia, Volume III, 1914 to 2008, p.537

Or as the British would say : It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees. But I doubt Paulsson would understand that.

Footnotes:

fn1.

Looking Back at Schorr’s Goldwater-Nazi Axis CBS Evening News Hit Piece | NewsBusters

http://m.newsbusters.org/blogs/brent-baker/2010/07/25/looking-back-schorr-s-goldwater-nazi-axis-cbs-evening-news-hit-piece

House Democrat Leaders: Tea Partiers Are Racist, Nazi, Gun Nuts | The Weekly Standard

http://m.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/04/house_democrat_leaders_tea_par.asp

fn2.

Madison,Mason,Adams,Coxe,Webster,Patrick Henry etc on the supposedly non-existent right to own guns #tcot #tlot #secondamendment - fightingstatism

http://fightingstatism.posterous.com/madisonmasonadamscoxewebsterpatrick-henry-etc

fn3.

I cite this because of its endorsement of resistance. To say that I do not agree that those who did not resist "deserved" anything that happened to them is a understatement.

The Gun Zone RKBA 8 -- Gun Quotes

http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rkba-8.html

""And how we burned in the camps later,thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been
uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs
hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, polkers, or whatever else was at hand? After all, you knew ahead of time that those bluecaps were out at night for no good purpose. And you could be sure ahead of time that you'd be cracking the skull of a cutthroat. Or what about the Black Maria sitting out there on the street with one lonely chauffeur --what if it had been driven off or its tires spiked. The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!" "If… if… We didn't love freedom enough. And even more -- we had no awareness of the real situation. We spent ourselves in one unrestrained outburst in 1917, and then we hurried to submit. We submitted with pleasure! ……….. We purely and simply deserved everything that
happened afterward."

- Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn, The
Gulag Archipelago: 1918-1956